Every experience I’ve had drinking at work (specifically at my desk or in the office) has generally been negative. It’s not necessarily that anything bad happened, but it always felt like I’d crossed a certain line, inviting something from my personal time that’s inherently about relaxing into my professional life. When bad stuff happened as a
This is all very bizarre. What is this desperation to have people in the office at any cost? Why is a drunk employee at a desk at 3 in the afternoon better than a sober one in their home office (or finishing the work "early" and doing something else somewhere else)?
I heartily agree with all you've said. Company culture is a con, it's an ego-play by managers so they think they are pulling the levers to make things happen, it's a way to establish and maintain their status.
Having worked in finance (briefly), the drinking culture is very strong and long-established. It's also extremely destructive and divisive. I'm surprised they are doubling down on it but not shocked, it's really a desire to go back to the past when rich white guys could pretty much do what they wanted (i.e. Mad Men).
There was a lot of alcohol consumption in my corporate career and we frequently went down to the pub as a social activity without any problems. However, problems often arose when it was an officially sanctioned event, without the filters of friendship and peer pressure. Now, I think it is best if alcohol and work are kept separate.
More OT for the second half of this post, stipulating the perils of drinking at work (which I don't enjoy either):
As a supporter of remote work and a founder of a company that is and will remain entirely virtual, I still have to say that there are efficiencies to the in-person office from a management perspective that do not involve belittling employees and "quick wording" them into submission. At least in the high-tech company where I used to work, I found it a lot easier to take the time to have many one-on-ones with people to understand the state of a project outside an eventual intimidating meeting of (no lie) 23 concerned people to realize that when that meeting happened, the choice had to be not shipping something that people had poured their hearts into for two years. Walking around and connecting the dots on that decision, then doing it again outside a gigantic meeting to explain the rationale for the business decision gave people the space and time and, importantly, the privacy to ask all kind of questions in a reasonably safe space, considering that I directly managed none of those people.
All of this is, of course, possible in a virtual environment, and I still work like this, but sometimes those kind of talks are easier for everyone in person, where more nuances are available to both people. I also found myself removing a number of process logjams by just persuading two people to talk to one another in the same office, outside of a formal meeting. Again, I'm not saying this is impossible in a virtual environment, but I found many times I was able to resolve difficulties in which I was not directly implicated by short, informal conversations, almost always with people who had every right to tell me to go pound sand if I wasn't persuasive.
That said, in my current company, my partner and I never tell anyone to work in the same place, but we ask if while we're in town if people in that city would like to get together to co-work somewhere for a day or two, as diffidently as the power dynamic allows, and the enthusiasm for those sort of short-term ad hoc opportunities seems genuine.
I'm not certain "work culture" doesn't exist - i just think it's fake if it's being "created." Culture happens, on its own, and if you like it, you stay, if you don't, you leave. Trying to change it never works.
I'm wondering what those bosses would say when you set up your remote office in a pub because you like their beer selection better.
Perhaps it would be useful to examine what people value in their home-office/remote setting and what is a problem that could be solved using your depreciating real-estate. If you have just as many or even more distractions and temptations to procrastinate at the office than at home you're just creating the worst of both worlds. There probably are a lot of people would value a quiet, low-distraction place to get work done. That means getting rid of open plan offices and also all the toys that really don't belong in a workplace at all.
I've had two experiences of drinking at work. Ironically, these were not corporate businesses but "countercultural" businesses explicitly created by "hippies" who saw themselves as superior to mainstream people. In both cases, the drinking reflected severe dysfunction on the part of megalomanic leaders.
At one place, a woman-owned business with about 100 employees, the older female owners routinely sexually harassed young male job candidates and employees, recruiting them simultaneously for their commune and the company. The company was an Inc. 500 sensation until market factors caused its rapid collapse. Then, announcements went out: "Smoking (tobacco and pot) is now allowed at your desk. And there's free beer in the fridge!" Soon, employees were quitting, some of them walking out with laptops (expensive at that time) for which there was no inventory control.
At the other place, a college, one of the employees set up a full bar at his desk, and the drinking began right after lunch. One specific reason for the bar: to encourage people not to deposit our paychecks. Every payday we received pay envelopes containing two checks, each for half our pay, and a note asking that we hold off on cashing one or both because the administration "wasn't sure" how many checks would bounce. So, some employees ran to the bank while others drank cocktails with the college president. Ultimately, the president was scammed out of millions of dollars in exchange for doctoring transcripts, leading to both financial collapse and loss of accreditation.
When I see drinking at work (beyond maybe some beer or wine at the company picnic), I'm gonna run. For me, it signals things have gotten way out of control.
Worker that started his career in 1980 with a comment. The only way to deal with booze at work is having one (or say you’re going back to your desk and drinking it) followed by an Irish Exit. Women suffered when there was drinking at work, especially given the power dynamics.
I also wonder how many of these sexual harassers use the availability of alcohol as an excuse and a cover for their bad behavior. Predators have been doing this forever.
This is all very bizarre. What is this desperation to have people in the office at any cost? Why is a drunk employee at a desk at 3 in the afternoon better than a sober one in their home office (or finishing the work "early" and doing something else somewhere else)?
I heartily agree with all you've said. Company culture is a con, it's an ego-play by managers so they think they are pulling the levers to make things happen, it's a way to establish and maintain their status.
Having worked in finance (briefly), the drinking culture is very strong and long-established. It's also extremely destructive and divisive. I'm surprised they are doubling down on it but not shocked, it's really a desire to go back to the past when rich white guys could pretty much do what they wanted (i.e. Mad Men).
There was a lot of alcohol consumption in my corporate career and we frequently went down to the pub as a social activity without any problems. However, problems often arose when it was an officially sanctioned event, without the filters of friendship and peer pressure. Now, I think it is best if alcohol and work are kept separate.
More OT for the second half of this post, stipulating the perils of drinking at work (which I don't enjoy either):
As a supporter of remote work and a founder of a company that is and will remain entirely virtual, I still have to say that there are efficiencies to the in-person office from a management perspective that do not involve belittling employees and "quick wording" them into submission. At least in the high-tech company where I used to work, I found it a lot easier to take the time to have many one-on-ones with people to understand the state of a project outside an eventual intimidating meeting of (no lie) 23 concerned people to realize that when that meeting happened, the choice had to be not shipping something that people had poured their hearts into for two years. Walking around and connecting the dots on that decision, then doing it again outside a gigantic meeting to explain the rationale for the business decision gave people the space and time and, importantly, the privacy to ask all kind of questions in a reasonably safe space, considering that I directly managed none of those people.
All of this is, of course, possible in a virtual environment, and I still work like this, but sometimes those kind of talks are easier for everyone in person, where more nuances are available to both people. I also found myself removing a number of process logjams by just persuading two people to talk to one another in the same office, outside of a formal meeting. Again, I'm not saying this is impossible in a virtual environment, but I found many times I was able to resolve difficulties in which I was not directly implicated by short, informal conversations, almost always with people who had every right to tell me to go pound sand if I wasn't persuasive.
That said, in my current company, my partner and I never tell anyone to work in the same place, but we ask if while we're in town if people in that city would like to get together to co-work somewhere for a day or two, as diffidently as the power dynamic allows, and the enthusiasm for those sort of short-term ad hoc opportunities seems genuine.
I'll take "Hypocrisy" for $400 Alex: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-19/bosses-don-t-follow-their-own-advice-in-returning-to-the-office
I'm not certain "work culture" doesn't exist - i just think it's fake if it's being "created." Culture happens, on its own, and if you like it, you stay, if you don't, you leave. Trying to change it never works.
Seems that many of these "managers" binged watched Mad Men during the pandemic.
I'm wondering what those bosses would say when you set up your remote office in a pub because you like their beer selection better.
Perhaps it would be useful to examine what people value in their home-office/remote setting and what is a problem that could be solved using your depreciating real-estate. If you have just as many or even more distractions and temptations to procrastinate at the office than at home you're just creating the worst of both worlds. There probably are a lot of people would value a quiet, low-distraction place to get work done. That means getting rid of open plan offices and also all the toys that really don't belong in a workplace at all.
I've had two experiences of drinking at work. Ironically, these were not corporate businesses but "countercultural" businesses explicitly created by "hippies" who saw themselves as superior to mainstream people. In both cases, the drinking reflected severe dysfunction on the part of megalomanic leaders.
At one place, a woman-owned business with about 100 employees, the older female owners routinely sexually harassed young male job candidates and employees, recruiting them simultaneously for their commune and the company. The company was an Inc. 500 sensation until market factors caused its rapid collapse. Then, announcements went out: "Smoking (tobacco and pot) is now allowed at your desk. And there's free beer in the fridge!" Soon, employees were quitting, some of them walking out with laptops (expensive at that time) for which there was no inventory control.
At the other place, a college, one of the employees set up a full bar at his desk, and the drinking began right after lunch. One specific reason for the bar: to encourage people not to deposit our paychecks. Every payday we received pay envelopes containing two checks, each for half our pay, and a note asking that we hold off on cashing one or both because the administration "wasn't sure" how many checks would bounce. So, some employees ran to the bank while others drank cocktails with the college president. Ultimately, the president was scammed out of millions of dollars in exchange for doctoring transcripts, leading to both financial collapse and loss of accreditation.
When I see drinking at work (beyond maybe some beer or wine at the company picnic), I'm gonna run. For me, it signals things have gotten way out of control.
Worker that started his career in 1980 with a comment. The only way to deal with booze at work is having one (or say you’re going back to your desk and drinking it) followed by an Irish Exit. Women suffered when there was drinking at work, especially given the power dynamics.
Never heard of drinking at work. Been working almost 35 years now.
I also wonder how many of these sexual harassers use the availability of alcohol as an excuse and a cover for their bad behavior. Predators have been doing this forever.